pops while starting cues or fade out [fix in 10.8.4]

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Just tested once more: fading ok, start and stop too (besides I stop at a 'bad' time...see the screenshot).
(I have watched a large latency before start and while moving the volume fader but I think its caused by this rudimentary test program!?)

sine wave start (ok) and stop (at a bad time...get a normal click because of the high level jump)

mixer test start and stop.JPG (64.36 KiB) Viewed 1394 times

But the click while stop is normal I think....if I don't stop at the zero-crossing I ever get a glitch/click. Thats also the problem if I stop cues 'hard' or use the "esc" key to stop all audio.
It causes almost always a huge click at the PA. Would be a nice feature in SCS (or the bass mixer audio driver) to do always in that case a very fast fade out to avoid this clicks!?


But....yes......using Bass Mixer: no clicks when starting playbacks!

Maybe there is some buffer not empty...I dont know....but hope this infos could help to find a cause an solve the problem with our RME card!!?

Greetings

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

I'll need to look into this a bit more. SCS does fade out over 100ms when a cue is stopped, except when processing "esc" which performs a dead stop. I could modify "esc" to do the 100ms fade instead of a dead stop, or maybe even try a 50ms fade.

The delay in starting is because the test program doesn't initialize the BASS device thread or open the audio file until you click the Play button. On my machine it takes about 1.7 seconds to initialize the BASS device thread. In SCS this is done after loading a cue file (.scs or .scsq file) so has no impact on cue playback.

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

I think would be fine to have a 100/50ms fadout for "esc"!
Maybe I couldn't hear your build in fadeout on stops because the specific problem I have...nice to hear you already implemented a 100ms fadeout when a cue is stopped.

Ok...that I thougt concerning the delay of 1-2s.

So would be fine if you can have a closer look whether there are differences concerning the function calls which could trigger the clicks/pops!?

Thank you very much for your efforts....would be brilliant if the software would run on our three playback computers at our 3 stages (all the same hardware configuration)!!

Greetings

Christian
-Staatstheater Wiesbaden -

[Mike Daniell]

I've modified and re-uploaded MixerTest.zip. Could you try this version?

This version performs a 100ms fade out when you click the Stop button. I have also changed the buffering within the program to match the default buffering used in SCS.

The program also displays a log of the BASS function calls and there is a button you can use to copy the log to the Windows clipboard so you can either post this with your reply or email it to me.

Now something important which I should have thought of earlier. Eric mentioned sample rates. What sample rate is your RME set to? SCS has a sample rate drop-down list in the Audio Driver Options - and it is also in this MixerTest program. Make sure the setting selected in the drop down list matches the sample rate of the RME. If you are using a sample rate that is not included in the drop-down list then let me know. When you have set this drop-down list to match the RME sample rate, try a test that does not use the BASS Mixer (= internal mixer in SCS). If you are running this test in SCS you may need to close and restart SCS.

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Did the test and send you a .wav, some screenshots and 2 logfiles.
Concerning the buffering: got still 1.2 s of space before the soundfile is playing.

Sample rate settings were equal in SCS and the RME settings dialog.....!

Got still a glitch ("using internal mixer") if starting a second cue while the first cue is playing.


Greetings

Christian

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Did a lot of testing at home with my Win 7 32bit PC and an old RME Hammerfall 9632 combi.
Using internal mixer (only with that setting I can drive the "old" RME card (Asio)) - got no glitches while starting cues.

Stopping a cue by a subcue (stop immediately) causes a glitch (but thats normal I think as far as there is no built in fade out yet).

Got a pop/click at the end of some files (file played till end). Happends too if the waveform is crossing the zero line. The end of that file sounds good in WaveLab (smooth end) but in SCS I got a little glitch at the very end. If the file has some more "digital zero" (500ms and more) at the end then there is no glitch and I have the sense the file is only now really played till its end!! Before I don't have the sense (lower 500ms second digital zero (and getting the glitch)....maybe there is one/the last buffer not played at the very end...so it takes more space to not cut off the end...but I dont know)!?!

Hm...very difficult to fix something...different OS an hardware .... and now I reportded from another hardware combi.....think would be not easy!?

But maybe it could give you some starting points and solves the problems on both combinations (XP-RayDat and Win7-RME 9632)!?

...But the features of SCS are really great.....I tested with so much joy!!!

Greetings

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

Did a lot of testing at home with my Win 7 32bit PC and an old RME Hammerfall 9632 combi.
Using internal mixer (only with that setting I can drive the "old" RME card (Asio)) - got no glitches while starting cues.

Stopping a cue by a subcue (stop immediately) causes a glitch (but thats normal I think as far as there is no built in fade out yet).

Got a pop/click at the end of some files (file played till end). Happends too if the waveform is crossing the zero line. The end of that file sounds good in WaveLab (smooth end) but in SCS I got a little glitch at the very end. If the file has some more "digital zero" (500ms and more) at the end then there is no glitch and I have the sense the file is only now really played till its end!! Before I don't have the sense (lower 500ms second digital zero (and getting the glitch)....maybe there is one/the last buffer not played at the very end...so it takes more space to not cut off the end...but I dont know)!?!

Were all these tests using ASIO? If so I'd like to concentrate on trying to resolve any glitches within the ASIO processing as the problems in WDM processing seem to be lower down the audio processing chain than SCS.

[cpeters]

I think all tests at home (win7 and RME Hammerfall 9632) seems to use the ASIO driver.
At work (win xp and HDSP 9652) I am not sure at the moment and I am not sure during which time and causing which setting I am using ASIO or WDM in SCS??

At home the outs are labelled as ASIO DIGI 9636/52 ...so I think I use the ASIO driver and all posted annotations at Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:11 pm refer to using ASIO!

At work I am not sure at the moment. But there I use internal mixer too...so maybe then I use the ASIO driver?!? Didn' know exactly the label which was displaed at the device mapper....but will check this tomorrow at work. The problem is...if I use ASIO on both combinations.....I get on the XP system the problem with glitch while starting a second cue ...and on the win7 at home i didn't??
Will check the problem at the end of a file at work tomorrow too...!

I would set up a win7 system with a RayDat tomorrow and will test it too...maybe it changes something to switch from xp to win 7?

Maybe you can ones more describe when SCS is using ASIO or using WDM ...or by which I can see it at the settings or in the programm?


Greetings!

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

In SCS, ASIO is only available if you use the internal mixer (= BASS mixer). It then depends on what devices you select in the Device Map. I don't know about RME but many other manufacturers have "ASIO" in the device name published by the driver. SCS knows which devices are ASIO as it obtains this info from the BASS audio library.

[cpeters]

In SCS, ASIO is only available if you use the internal mixer (= BASS mixer). It then depends on what devices you select in the Device Map. I don't know about RME but many other manufacturers have "ASIO" in the device name published by the driver. SCS knows which devices are ASIO as it obtains this info from the BASS audio library.

Ok...so then at home I use ASIO.

More news tomorrow...!

Greetings

Christian

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Did a lot of testing at work and thats the conclusion: the best result for me is 'use internal mixer' and using the ASIO driver.
Starting of cues is ok, fades ok, latency too. Only problem there is a click/pop at the end.
Did another test: played 60s sine wave with scs and recorded with WaveLab. Then assembled the two files sample acurate and as you can see at the screenshot: the audio played by scs is missing ~190ms of audio and the waveform breaks down (and scs or the audio engine? produced a glitch at the end of it.)

The waveform at the top is the file played with scs, the waveform at the bottom is the original file.

200ms_lost_audio.jpg (185.12 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

So I hope it can be a starting point to find the problem I do have with ASIO at the systems we utilise!?!

Greetings

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

Well - yes, there's a bug in SCS that can cause the cue to be stopped too soon! I've emailed you details of a fixed version, so let me know how you get on with that.

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Just tested the version...runs very well....seems to be fixed as you can see! !

sinus_SCS_with_SCS1084btr.JPG (95.81 KiB) Viewed 1336 times

The file (60 sec sinus) played by SCS seems to be ~1ms longer than the original file...but maybe that is caused by sampling rate conversion of the mixingdesk/clocking issues!?

Thank you very much for your great and quick support!!!!

Will continue testing audio capabilitys and steadiness and hope to perform one of the next new upcoming perfomances with SCS!

Best Regards

Christian Peters
- Staatstheater Wiesbaden-
Germany

post scriptum: I feel free to post some ideas for upcoming features and improvement suggestions for future scs versions...I already have some ideas.... Hope that is ok!?

[Mike Daniell]

Just tested the version...runs very well....seems to be fixed as you can see! !

post scriptum: I feel free to post some ideas for upcoming features and improvement suggestions for future scs versions...I already have some ideas.... Hope that is ok!?

Fix now available in SCS 10.8.4.

Yes, feel free to suggest new features. We have a 'Feature Requests' forum available for this, and you're also welcome to email me directly.