pops while starting cues or fade out [fix in 10.8.4]

[cpeters]

Hi!

Sorry my english isn't as good as it should be but I hope you will understand me!

We just bought a licence of scs pro and I am testing it for playback cues in our theatre!
There are many great features we did wait for such a long time...so I tested scs pro 10.8.2 on our Win XP quadcore with RME HDSP RayDat connected via adat to a digital console.

I run into the following problem: I was not able to play any audio without pops or clicks!

If I switch off the Bass audio driver and switch on "do NOT use SCS internal mixer", I get a clean start of the audio files, no pops or clicks...BUT the fade outs and ins are stuttering (clicks at the beginn and during the fade).
If I play a sound with this settings and move the volume fader of the playing sound up and down I get clicks while doing that.

Then I tried all other possible combinations of switchiing on/off Bass and internal mixer settings. Switching on the internal mixer fixes the fade out and volume clicks...BUT then starting or stopping a cue causes a pop or click.

So...any idea how to fix the problem!?! Its such a great programm...but it had to be "click-free" for us....!

Thanks for any help!

Christian Peters
-Staatstheater Wiesbaden-

[cpeters]

Hi!

Just tested the new version 10.8.3 but no changes regarding my problems.

- switching off SCS internal mixer: starting of cue/audio files without clicks (fine) but clicks and pops while fading in/out

- use internal mixer (switch it on): clicks and pops while starting cues/files but fading in/out ok (fine)!?

Switching on/off Bass audio library settings seems to have no effects (positiv/negative) regarding the problems mentioned above.

Hm....any idea to fix!?

Greetings

Christian Peters
- Staatstheater Wiesbaden-

[Mike Daniell]

I've uploaded a test program which I'd like you to try. You can download this from here: panTest.zip. This zip file contains panTest.exe and bass.dll. Unzip them into a new or temporary folder and then double-click panTest.exe to run the program.

You will first be asked to select an output device. When you have done that click OK and you will see a window like this:



The window is self-explanatory, but the main thing I want you to test here is if you get any clicks and pops while moving the level or pan sliders (whilst playing a file). Let me know how you get on.

[Eric Snodgrass]

Christian, make sure that your digital console and your RME card are in sync via the ADAT cable. Both devices should be running the same sample rate and one of the devices should be the Master clock. Not doing this will cause clicks, pops and stuttering between devices. The RME software should show you if the console, connected via one of the ADAT outputs, is in sync. If, in the RME software, ADAT 1 does not say Sync, then you have a difference in sample rate.

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Thank you for your quick respones...I will test it tomorrow (today I have a day off! ) and report you!

@Eric: Thanks for your advice...I will check it once more....but normally the card is set as Master and the console has a built in sample rate converter, so it should be working fine! But I will have a look....you are right.
Playing the files is ok...no clicks and pop...only the first start causes a pop/click or changing the level...so maybe its not a sync problem!?

Christian

[Eric Snodgrass]

If your console is set to constantly switch sampling rates, you should instead have your console locked at the same rate as your RME card. Also make sure your RME card is locked at a fixed sampling rate.
What is the make and model of the console?
On the computer make sure Windows Sounds are turned off. If your RME card is not set at a fixed sampling rate then it will switch to the sampling rate of whatever sound is played. That means the card will switch sampling rates depending on the sampling rate of the sound being played, so if a Windows sound plays then the card will switch to a 22.5kHz sampling rate (the sampling rate of sounds played by Windows), and then switch to another sampling rate when SCS plays a different sound.

[cpeters]

Hi Eric,

you are right...checked once more the settings and tried the RME card to set as Slave, but that seems not to be the cause of my problem.
The console is a Cantus console from a german manufacture called StageTec.
Windows sounds are switched off-the PC is only running a playback software and optimized for audio playback.

Christian

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Just tested with your program pantest and got also glitches while moving pan and volume!

Tested with a sine wave and here is a screenshot.

glitches while moving the fader

screenshot sinus.JPG (35.99 KiB) Viewed 2650 times

I can send you the wave file I recorded while moving the sliders.

Hope could help with that to fix the problem.

Greetings!

Christian

(Tested yesretday at home with Win7 32 and old Hammerfall 9652, no pops and glitches at all!)

[Eric Snodgrass]

Any other programs running in the background of your XP computer?
What is the setting of your sample buffer on the RayDat? Have you tried increasing it?

[cpeters]

Hi Erik!

Nope...no other program runnig. Runs well with our present audio software with this settings (256/6ms).
Will try to increase....but its bad for latency...!
Let you know the result....

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

Christian,

The panTest program is little more than a wrapper for the BASS audio library function calls, so the fact the you still get clicks and pops with panTest confirms that the problem is not specifically SCS but lower down the audio processing line. Also, it does seem to be specific to that combination of equipment.

I can pass this info on to the BASS Audio Library developer but before I do that there's another test I'd like you to run. In your first posting you mentioned that fades seem to work better when using the internal mixer, although you got clicks on starting and stopping. Please download MixerTest.zip. This zip file contains MixerTest.exe, bass.dll and bassmix.dll. Unzip into a new or temporary folder and then double-click MixerTest.exe to start the program. You will see a window like this:



Select your device and open the file you want to play. Then click the play button. With the default settings this will play the file using the BASS Mixer (which is the library used by the 'SCS internal mixer'). Move the Channel Level slider and listen for any clicks and pops. Then click the Stop button. Now select the option 'Do NOT Use BASS Mixer' and click the play button again. The file will be re-opened and played but this time without using the BASS Mixer. Adjust the Level slider again and listen for clicks and pops.

Assuming you still get clicks and pops, try this: when an audio file is playing click on the Channel Level slider to give it focus. Then use the left and right arrow keys to make incremental adjustments to the level. Do you get a click or pop each time you press a left or right arrow key?

[Eric Snodgrass]

Another suggestion - when doing this test on your computer, can you go into the board in an analog input? I know the RayDAT is only ADAT I/O. Is there an external D/A that you can use prior to going into the board?
I know I keep asking about this connection with the digital board but I do believe that is somehow related to this.

[cpeters]

Hi Eric,

could test it...but only for testing....the ADAT connection is working like a charme normally and hence we had never trouble with leveling the analog inputs of the multichannel player: only load the project on the desk and all levels are as it should be!

Will do a test!

Christian

[cpeters]

Hi Mike!

Thanks for your persitence!

I did the test with mixer test.exe:
- using the bass mixer: all fine, no clicks or pops!

- do not use the bass mixer: clicks an pops while moving the faders...
If I did the left click an use the arrow keys clicks and pops are there too. Not at every push on the keyboard...but all 3 or 4 hits ! :-/

Greetings

Christian

[Mike Daniell]

I did the test with mixer test.exe:
- using the bass mixer: all fine, no clicks or pops!

Not even when starting and stopping playback? If so then I'll see if I can find any differences between the BASS function calls in SCS and MixerTest, because I would expect SCS using the 'internal mixer' (= BASS mixer) to behave the same as MixerTest using.