Show Cue System

I would like to use two SCS9 together in order to have a master/slave system for large show. I am suggesting to use LAN for their media, because nows a day every computer is connected to the network.

So if two SCS can be sync together, i believe there will have more and more ppl using it if its have the redundent solutions.

The second suggestion is the support of RS-232 control instead of cue activation by RS-232C.

Why i would have this ideas? Because in my school, i need to control mixing consoles, lx borad and the projector at the same time. All the projector now is using either LAN or RS-232, so if the next SCS ver. can support RS-232 control, then it would become a killer for show control.

Just my little suggestion.

KMK

I would like to use two SCS9 together in order to have a master/slave system for large show.

You can use MIDI Send Cues on the master and MIDI Control on the slave.

I've had other requests for RS232 sends so this on the list of things to do.

Mike Daniell wrote:I've had other requests for RS232 sends so this on the list of things to do.

SCS 10.2.0 now supports RS232 sends in Control Send cues.

Just to add to this request. A global rs232 or midi cue attached to the go button would help here as no cue setting would be required to sync both pc's

Richard Simpson

Richard Simpson wrote:Just to add to this request. A global rs232 or midi cue attached to the go button would help here as no cue setting would be required to sync both pc's

Can I just clarify this? Do you want an RS232 or MIDI message to be sent on activating the Go button, which in turn would activate the Go button on a slave PC? If so, then it would be desirable to implement messages for a few other actions as well, especially 'Stop Everything', but probably also cue navigation (eg Go to Top).

Yes thats basically the idea. The 2nd pc would then be a slave for backup purposes. It would be great if you could manage it. I presume you would have a global control - Choosing either master or slave and then via midi or rs232 if possible

You can already do this via midi.
If you set the midi control method to custom under the Midi Devices & Control tab in the options panel you can map whatever midi commands you want in order to sync two machines.
Regards, Peter

This is me being thick again,
Trying to set up a master / slave arrangement with 2 computers, I can set up the Midi IN side of things on the slave but how do I turn on and define the midi out strings for the 'Go' etc buttons on the master computer?

Boswell,

I think Peter's suggestion is related to using a separate controller to send MIDI to both machines. That separate controller could be a lighting board, a sound board, or a separate program, probably on a separate computer. There is currently no facility in SCS to send MIDI when clicking the Go button, except when sending from a Control Send cue or sub-cue.

One of the problems with the Master/Slave model, where an SCS Master computer keeps an SCS Slave computer in sync, is handling all the possible events that can occur on the Master computer. Handling the 'Go' button is obvious, but the slave also needs to be kept in sync by other actions, such as Esc, Pause/Resume, Master Fader adjustments, navigation changes (eg up and down the cue list), and possibly also cue level changes. Then there's the issue of what happens if the Master computer fails and the computer is restarted. Are the roles reversed and the slave becomes the master and vice versa? This is probably what is required, and then the new slave needs to be brought into sync with the master.

If the above is a workable Master/Slave model, then I suggest it be implemented using TCP/IP rather than MIDI or RS232 (although these other interfaces could also be implemented). The advantage of TCP/IP is that this can be implemented using an Ethernet cable connecting the two computers, and most computers have an Ethernet connection, so you don't need a MIDI or RS232 connection.

Any thoughts?

Mike,
I said it was me being thick!!
I had in the back of my mind that one of the previous mods was to send a midi string with the 'Go' button, I was obvoiusly mistaken, put it down to old age!.
I don't like the idea of keeping 2 computers in sync with another computer as you are back to square 1, it could be done with a simple Midi controller though.
I was not looking for the slave to be an exact mirror of the master as regards pan,volume alterations but more a case of keeping in step cue wise.
I can do it by coding a 'Go' midi string into every cue and possibly a 'Goto' string into every say 5 cues. This would keep the computers more or less in step but it is a lot of extra manual coding!
Our musical shows are heavy on radio mics/control cues and now we are using SCS we can control more mics so the directors have expanded their requirements to fill our capabillities! This means if SCS goes down for any reason, the mic plot can be too complicated/fast for manual control.
We can accept a short interuption whilst we change over to a backup computers (flick a switch) but would like to keep the interuption as short as possible, hence keeping the backup more or less in sync.

I personally think it is not worth all the effort and is making things too complicated and less reliable. The theatre managers are paranoid about computers failing, based on their own home computers, full to the gills with virus, programmes, bloatware etc. They can't accept that a stripped down OS, not connected to the internet, running ONLY SCS, powered by a UPS is reliable. (Sorry, Rant over )
It's not worth you altering SCS to cope with a very rare event, I'll look at using a hardware midi controller, http://highlyliquid.com/midi-controllers/ are doing a programmable one for $45.

Thanks for the ideas

I realize this is a relatively old post, but it is something I am looking for.

I use two computers for a redundant system now, each with 8 delta series outputs, running SCS 10.7.6 now. I have been playing with a few work arounds to get the slave to follow exactly what the master is doing. Here is the "best" solution I came up with.

I use IPMidi to create a midi connection over my LAN network. I then used Bome's Midi Translator at both ends to convert keystrokes (up, down, home, end, esc, and spacebar) into descret midi signals (program changes) then back to the matching keystroke. This worked well when it worked, but there were alot of variables that the SM needed to put into place before it worked. BMT is not the most reliable program in my experience and my SM team seems to barely be computer literate, its just not what they do.

So I just upgraded from P4 computers to a couple of rackmount AMD 64x2 systems that are identical except for the hard drives and I am really loving the improvement. But I just cant afford 16 channels off my 56 input board anymore. We have an ever growing wireless mic farm and in our musicals we have up to a 18 piece band, many with more than one mic. so my goal now is to run both computers into a patchbay that is half normalized. The patchbay is at the SM desk so if the master pc crashes, the SM pulls the patch cables out and hits the kvm switch and they are back in buisness, maybe even without the audience even noticing.

This ideal setup of mine does require that the slave pc be reasonably close to the same point as the master. While I can attach a midi control cue to each cue on the master pc, it would be great if the master pc could be set to output Midi Show Control cues for each cue. This would resolve the issue of needing to follow the navigation exactly since MSC can (and should) trigger go to specific cue numbers. if the sm plays through cues 1-8 (the slave has tracked along with the master via MSC triggers), then the sm jumps back to cue 3 and hits GO, cue 3 send a MSC GO CUE 3 command, subsequently triggering cue 3 again on the slave pc. If you could attach the MSC ALL OFF command the the ESC (Panic) button, that would solve that issue.

I hope the I am being clear. This is basically how ETC has set up the Obsession II lighting console (and probably others). Rather then worrying about navigation, each cue sends out the GO TO CUE ## command that corresponds with the light cue number. So if you take light cue one it triggers scs cue one. If you have a light cue with no sound (probably have a lot), just make sure no sound cues share the same number. If you have a sound cue with no lights, you copy the previous light cue and give the copy the same cue number as the sound cue.

I believe MSC is sysex messages. MSC also has descret commands for lighting go and sound go (as well as projection, video etc) so sending out a SOUND GO CUE 3 msc command would not have to trigger the light board; although it would be nice if it could.

MSC is great and very user friendly. If it could be turned on in general options to send the matching MSC cue, tracking a Slave system would be easy.

Sorry if I was a little long winded. Also I am realizing that MSC is included in the Pro version of SCS, so you all problably did not need my long winded, unclear explanation of MSC. Hey its 2 am after a tech rehearsal, sue me...

David McCollum
Technical Director

Having an external controller to send MIDI (or RS232, etc) to both SCS computers is a fairly common setup and SCS can support that now.

However, a number of users have requested a 'master/slave' scenario so I have done some planning for this. One of the issues is that if the master goes down then the slave must become the master and start sending messages to the new slave. This 'new slave' would probably be the original master computer, so when that computer has been restarted it must assume the role of slave. This master/slave switching should preferably be automated - if you lose the master computer you will have enough to do switching outputs etc and restarting the failed computer. Basically I would see the 'master' as being the computer that directly receives keyboard or mouse commands that activate cues, or that receives MIDI or similar commands that do not originate from another instance of SCS.

I'm planning to support master/slave communication using either MIDI or Telnet. The advantage of Telnet is that you do not need a MIDI interface on each machine and probably just need to through an ethernet cable between them.