Controlling microphone input with SCS

[Austin R]

Can anyone offer me some general advice on using SCS to control microphone input during a live show? I am presently controlling an off-stage mic needed for our current show via the audio mixing board separately from the SCS cues. As we eventually want to be able to set up the audio for shows by using a notebook running SCS in the auditorium controlling an audio interface in the booth, it would be useful to control mic input via SCS rather than having to be physically next to the mixer.

Thanks

Austin Reade

[kharney]

I am especially interested in this topic as well and anxious for responses. I have a CB radio set up on stage that I have a cable connected to the PA out on and would like to control the On/Off and Volume from SCS. And can I use SCS to route the sound to the correct speakers ? This would be GREAT if possible. This is not REALLY a live mic situation in the sense that he picks it up and delivers a couple lines and sets it back down. It is more for a one line effect. Running live mics is not really what I am looking for as that would cause a whole bunch of new problems.

I am using a Firewire 410. Can I route the cable to one of the Inputs and take that Input and route it to a specific speaker? While not effecting the rest of the cues.

[Mike Daniell]

What this comes down to is how much control you want over the mic input. Earlier this year I experimented with 'live input', which provided for feeding a mic or other input into SCS and allowing SCS to treat it just like playing an audio file. The only problem we encountered was we couldn't get the latency down sufficiently - it needed to be less than 10ms but it was running at about 30-40ms. I'll revisit this later.

An alternative we considered was to connect the mic directly into the sound board (as normal) and then use SCS MIDI Send Cues to control the mic channel. Currently that will work OK for turning channels on and off, or selecting 'scenes'. However, if you want SCS to gradually fade or pan a mic channel then that may require a series of MIDI commands, which SCS currently does not provide except by setting up MIDI Send Cues for every step of the fade or pan.

I don't know if this answers your questions - feel free to comment further.

[Austin R]

Mike:

Thanks for the response. My interest was simply in enabling/disabling the mic between its cues so as not to pick up any unintended output from the actor who was offstage wearing a headset mic while manipulating a giant's hand. What can I say, it's Christmas!

Sounds as if MIDI will do the trick so another learning curve beckons.

Regards

Austin Reade

[kharney]

For me it is also a short on and off thing. And perhaps a level setting thing but not a level change or pan or anything. All of that would be possible with a digital mixing board with MIDI cues but the theatres I am working in are primarily analog boards. I did figure out a way to get the signal into my Firewire 410 last night and routed to the correct speakers through that but I am not sure how volume will be adjusted. In my case, the mic he picks up is a CB radio so he physically has to click it on to use it which avoids that On/Off issue but volume is still a problem. I guess I will keep playing around and see what I can do. Any suggestions would be great !!!!

[kharney]

Austin,

I have done MIDI before so if you want to PM me you can ... If you have a digital board there is a quick and easy fix available to solve your problem.

Kevin

[Mike Daniell]

Kevin,

Just a comment about analog boards - some analog boards do have MIDI control over mute groups. I've used an Allen & Heath GL4800 in this way. (But there's no MIDI control over the levels and no motorised faders.)

Can't offer any suggestions about controlling the CB radio level, especially on an analog board, except the obvious solution of manually adjusting the channel fader.

[Boswell]

Hi,
We have a Soundcraft K2/24 which accepts midi inputs to control mutes on individual mic inputs.
As I'm new to midi and SCS, I need some advice/hand holding.
I can create individual Midi cues to control 1 mute but I need to be able to control say 14 mutes from 1 cue or group of subcues.
Using Midi sub cues, I can create the 14 individual sub cues but when I fire the cue I presume that they will all run at once and produce garbage. I can't see an easy way to make the subcues run sequentially.

More likely, I've misunderstood how Midi works

Any ideas?

[Mike Daniell]

Using Midi sub cues, I can create the 14 individual sub cues but when I fire the cue I presume that they will all run at once and produce garbage. I can't see an easy way to make the subcues run sequentially.

The MIDI commands will actually be sent sequentially, in the order of the subcues. The commands should not get mixed up. I do have plans for a multi-command MIDI Send cue that will simplify entering the cues, but that's still "on the drawing board."

[Ian Beeby]

We use a simple little midi controlled relay to switch our stage relay mics on and off, the unit is made by Midi Solutions http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrel.htm and can be set to instantaneous or latching, and remembers the last state even when powered off. They also do an 8 channel version (bit pricey though!)
Our PA amp has a switched mic input which relies on two terminals being shorted out (by the midi relay) to open the mic, although shorting across the microphone line and screen with a small capacitor in series SHOULD have a similar (all be it opposite) effect. We are thinking of buying the 8 channel version to control radio mics and lighting/pyro effects (Note however that pyros MUST have a local authorisation for the stage manager with line-of-sight to the pyro, the SCS unit will simply fire the pyro once the stage manager has armed it!)

[Bertitude]

We use a simple little midi controlled relay to switch our stage relay mics on and off, the unit is made by Midi Solutions http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrel.htm and can be set to instantaneous or latching, and remembers the last state even when powered off. They also do an 8 channel version (bit pricey though!)
Our PA amp has a switched mic input which relies on two terminals being shorted out (by the midi relay) to open the mic, although shorting across the microphone line and screen with a small capacitor in series SHOULD have a similar (all be it opposite) effect. We are thinking of buying the 8 channel version to control radio mics and lighting/pyro effects (Note however that pyros MUST have a local authorisation for the stage manager with line-of-sight to the pyro, the SCS unit will simply fire the pyro once the stage manager has armed it!)

I'm curious as to exactly how the relay is physicall set up in the system. I can't visualize it in my head can you describe it to me?

[Ian Beeby]

No problem:
Firstly the amp we use for bar music and stage monitoring has two pre-amped microphone inputs, these are normally off but can be switched on by connecting together two sockets on a small terminal block on the back of the amp. When the amp is supplied it comes with a wire link shorting out the terminals as standard, otherwise the mics wont work.
Obviously replacing that link with a small relay will allow the mics to be turned on or off remotly by swithing the relay between NO and NC. The midi box does exactly that, it swithes the relay on or off when it receives a midi signal from the SCS computer. It can be programmed to 'latch' the relay so that it 'remembers' it's last setting so we send a midi control command of '0' to 'open the relay and swith the microphones off, and a command of '1' to 'close' the relay and switch them on again, and once the command has been sent, the relay will stay in that state until it receives another midi command, so the mics will stay either off or on until instructed to change.
I hope this makes it clear for you, it's actually easier to do than to describe!
Just a word of warning though, these midi controllers require a reasonable grasp of midi techniques and protocols in order to do the basic programming on them, not being too well up on this technology I had to recruit help with the programming, but most muso's who use electronic instruments seem to be pretty clued up on midi these days.
Regards
Ian

[Boswell]

If you are handy with a soldering iron, these are much cheaper than midi solutions!
http://highlyliquid.com/kits/msa-r/
8 relay channels for $48

Takes about 30mins to assemble (I've built 3 of them) and work first time with SCS9,
Minimal knowledge of midi required.

[Bertitude]

That makes it much clearer thanks. thanks for the help.

[Ian Beeby]

Hi Boswell
Thanks for that link, it is BRILLIANT! I think I will be investing in one of those very soon!!!
Cheers
Ian