Show Cue System

I know that a number of SCS users are using it to control lighting consoles and/or software (or vice-versa). By reading some posts from some of these folks I've learned a few things about control send and receive cues but have not yet gone through a show attempting this, especially running both SCS and a lighting control program on the same machine. Is there some sort of tutorial that I can read that will help teach me the basics of setting up show control between SCS and a lighting control program (in this case, Lightfactory) on the same machine?
What I do know is that there are a few different ways to have show control between the programs. I've just downloaded loopMidi to run on a laptop to give me communication between SCS and Lightfactory, but I still need some guidance on the basics of setting up show control between SCS and another program. I don't know if SCS will fire off cues in Lightfactory, or if Lightfactory will fire off cues in SCS via midi, or both, or if Telnet is the better option. I don't have any experience with either midi or Telnet, so a tutorial explaining the basics of setting up show control using SCS and another program or device would be extremely helpful.

Unfortunately I've little experience with lighting so I'am not in a position to offer much guidance. So for anyone else who can give Eric some advice, please share it here for the benefit of us all!

Regarding LightFactory, I've recently been in touch with Martin Searancke from LightFactory and as soon as 11.4.0 is stable enough for release we will be working together to formalize the communication between the two programs. At this stage I think that Telnet will be the preferred connection method, and to this end 11.4.0 already includes 'LightFactory' as a 'Remote Device' under both Control Send Devices and Cue Control Devices in Production Properties. However, currently all that selection does is preset the LF port number (3100). When I find out some more about LF then I'll see if it's feasible to provide useful command info in Control Send cues, as has already been implemented for the Behringer X32 Digital Mixer.

hi,

i don´t know how light factory can handle midi triggers, but i use http://www.pcdimmer.de as lighting software (on the same PC via Midi Yoke). Each lighting cue of PC_Dimmer has its own unique midi note as trigger (note on/off and controll sends are possible as well). In SCS you have to define an control send device with midi out to Midi Yoke. The lighting software is triggered by this via Midi in. You build up your lighting cues and all of them have their own unique Midi notes as triggers. In SCS for each lighting cue, you have to build a control send cue with the appropriate midi note. The lighting software should now be triggered by this. Thats the way i do this with PC_Dimmer. I don´t know how Light Factory can handle this. I tested Light Factory but it was not as easy as PC_Dimmer to control and build up your lighting rigg. Did the tests aswell with many other lighting programs.

This is the stageview window of PC_Dimmer...



...and the only PC_Dimmer program window i have open besides the SCS program window. If you need further help, let me know!

tnx
tocsin

tocsin wrote:hi,

i don´t know how light factory can handle midi triggers, but i use http://www.pcdimmer.de as lighting software (on the same PC via Midi Yoke). Each lighting cue of PC_Dimmer has its own unique midi note as trigger (note on/off and controll sends are possible as well). In SCS you have to define an control send device with midi out to Midi Yoke. The lighting software is triggered by this via Midi in. You build up your lighting cues and all of them have their own unique Midi notes as triggers. In SCS for each lighting cue, you have to build a control send cue with the appropriate midi note. The lighting software should now be triggered by this. Thats the way i do this with PC_Dimmer. I don´t know how Light Factory can handle this. I tested Light Factory but it was not as easy as PC_Dimmer to control and build up your lighting rigg. Did the tests aswell with many other lighting programs.

After doing some tests with Light Factory I have found that, just as you described with PC Dimmer, SCS can control cues via Midi Note cues as triggers with each cue having its own unique note. With Light Factory it appears that I would have to put it in Learn Mode and let it learn each note cue and learn the action for each cue learned. This process appears extremely time consuming, especially considering the SCS file must be programmed, then all the lighting cues via Light Factory, then teaching Light Factory the proper Note Cue responses.
I'll experiment more with this and see if I can cut down the time from the programming process. For now I'll just have Light Factory on a separate laptop and trigger it manually.

The point about the time consumption is true, but i think this is not totally avoidable. i have a preset file for SCS and PC_Dimmer where control send cues and empty lighting cues (with its midi note) already exist. so the only thing i have to do is rearange the control send cue in SCS and fill up its appropriate lightung cue in PC_Dimmer with magic.

i dont understand

then teaching Light Factory the proper Note Cue responses.

What response does SCS need? Or do you just mean the assign of the lighting cues with midi notes from SCS.

Once the programming is done, it was worth it.

tocsin wrote:The point about the time consumption is true, but i think this is not totally avoidable. i have a preset file for SCS and PC_Dimmer where control send cues and empty lighting cues (with its midi note) already exist. so the only thing i have to do is rearange the control send cue in SCS and fill up its appropriate lightung cue in PC_Dimmer with magic.

My cues are very specific to the show, with different areas at different levels and different timings, so creating empty lighting cues won't really work for this musical. The time-consuming portion of programming control send cues between SCS and Light Factory is definitely unavoidable, but it would be cut down considerably if Light Factory would recognize Midi Show Control Cues from SCS - that way I could simply name the lighting cue number I want triggered rather than have to associate that particular cue with a Midi Note.

i dont understand

then teaching Light Factory the proper Note Cue responses.

What response does SCS need? Or do you just mean the assign of the lighting cues with midi notes from SCS.

Light Factory has a Midi Learn function that, when enabled, listens for and recognizes Midi events, then prompts the user to associate them with a particular action. There is a Note Trigger window in Light Factory where the Note cues and associated actions are listed, and apparently there is a way to add new triggers, but for some reason my program will not allow that (something I need to investigate on the Light Factory site), so the Learn Mode is the only way currently that I can associate Midi Notes with actions. Because using Midi Note cues appears to be the only way Light Factory will see Midi from SCS, it means I would have to keep track of which Midi Notes are associated with which lighting cues. And, if I needed to add a lighting cue or cues into the show I would have to associate those cues with new Midi Notes in order for Light Factory to fire off those cues via SCS.
With around 75 lighting cues and nearly 40 SCS sound cues, it will just be easier for now to use two different laptops, one controlling SCS and one controlling Light Factory. I will keep investigating this to see if MSC cues can trigger Light Factory.

hmm... i see that this is not easy. maybe it is just my workaround for this wich makes it easy for me. Because the templates i have help me alot (empty SCS file with only 100 control send cues and PC_Dimmer file with 100 empty Lighting Cue wich are 1<->1 connected with SCS via Midi trigger). This helps alot to build up a show from scratch. The last show i had, had about 90 Audio files with about 80 lighting cues connected. setting this up was really not that hard.

but i have no clue how to deal with this with Light Factory. Maybe i gave up to early with Light Factory, but PC_Dimmer was way more intuitive for me.

But i agree if both programs could handle MSC or OSC that would be the best.

hi there

This is something I've been looking into as well. From the SCS side of things you're sending out MIDI commands, and that part stays fairly consistent, really it then comes down to the lighting software what you do with it and what it can do to interpret the MIDI signals.

The system designed above gives maximum control, where each individual cue in SCS plays a different midi on note, and each lighting cue is matched to these. A slightly simpler way, if supported by your software, would be to use a midi command as a GO button. Each time you want a lighting change you simply send the same note form SCS, and the lighting software just steps to whatever the next cue is in it's playlist.

Obviously the lighting cues have to be in the right order in that case, if it's a fairly static show and the track lists aren't likely to change that i'm sure would be fine, but if it's more of a band setlist where song order could change every show, the more complicated way probably (while initially a little more time consuming to set up) would pay dividends as all you'd have to do is change the cues in SCS and the lighting software would automatically follow suit.

k

Hi,
I use SCS with pc light system (Hog anf Jands Vista) or hardware lighting Control.
SCS send MSC (Midi Show Control)
Some time I just send "GO" Or better "GO" and que number

If I use the same computer I use "MIDI Yoke" to sned MIDI between programs.
/Krister, (Sweden)

http://www.showcuesystems.com/forum/vie ... =12&t=2182

In a nutshell: Use SCS via a midi loopback program to send controls to PcDimmer or QLC+ or lightfactory.
Set the midi output from SCS to go to your midi loopback programs output. (midi out)
Set your lighting control program to receive midi from your midi loopback program (midi input).
In PCdimmer/QLC+ or lightfactory set up the incoming midi to action something like play the next lighting Cue, go back 1 cue or reset to the start.
For example:
Midi program change 1 makes the lighting program action the next cue.
Midi program change 2 action go back one set in the lighting software cue list.
Midi program change 3 to reset to top or lighting program cue list.

I program these is as normal Cue but also as Keys so that in an emergency I can manually go back and forward, great for setting up and testing.
Dee

I did a test system for an upcoming project, using SCS 11.4 RC4
The new network send feature makes communication between SCS and Lightfactory very easy to configure.

I had three laptops , each with SCS and LF.
Laptop #1 ( "Master" ) sends "Network Send" commands to LF inside Laptop #1, and over wireless network to Laptops #2 and #3, to SCS and LF

"Network Out"s were configured to send UDP strings
I did only trigger generic "Go"s in LF ; I have not yet spent the time to tweak the sent strings to trigger a specific cue in LF, but it looks easy enough

My project ( happening this fall ) is an outdoor show where the same scene is performed in 4 locations at once , spread around a park. Last year we ran huge amounts of cable- the plan this year is to set up a wireless mesh network instead. Since we are only sending trigger commands, I am not worried about bandwidth over the network.

It will be a good challenge for our students- they have a "Networks in Theatre" class, but this will push beyond what we cover in that course

Craig Blackley
Fanshawe College

Craig, how did you set up a Network Send from SCS to Lightfactory within the same laptop?

Sorry for the slow response- the pCs involved are on a site I can't get to readily. Once they come back I will make notes of the specific set up and post it

Craig Blackley

Hello- very delayed follow up to my previous post about SCS / Lightfactory interaction.

We ( Fanshawe College Theatre Technology, London , Ontario) used SCS with LF on two events this fall.
The first was a "Haunted Hayride" in a Pioneer Village. Basically people ride on wagons pulled by tractors around a recreated village from the 1800's. In various locations sound and lighting was used for spooky effect. Sometimes sound was synchronised across multiple location, sometimes each was independent. Due to the nature of the event, running cables every where was to be avoided - too much cable, plus would have to run across pathways with foot and vehicle traffic.

We used a "Master PC" running SCS, connected to a WiFi access point, to send Telent commands to three other PCs, each with their own Router /WAP. We used cheap WAPS that we could configure to run in bridge mode at the remote locations. Since we were only sending Telnet commands, bandwidth wasn't a concern, just distance range.
The Remote PCs ran SCS to play audio files, and to trigger LF in the same PC. SCS controlled LF with UDP commands. Here is the configuration details :

SCS sending commands via telnet : sender is network client, receiver is network server
Master PC: ip 192.168.1.22. Mask 255.255.255.0, default gateway 192.168.1.22
In SCS " control send device "
"SCS remote 1" set to:
SCS On another computer, telnet, scs is a network client, server ip 192.168.1.21, port 59648

Remote PC1: IP 192.168.1.21 etc
In SCS " Cue Control Devices"
"Network 1" set to SCS on another computer, telnet, SCS is network server, listen on port 59648

In SCS Control Send Devices"
"LF" set to remote device : Lightfactory
UDP, SCS is network client, server ip 192.168.1.21, port 3100 ( note that this is the same ip as the computer SCS is running on )

In Lightfactory
System properties: system I/O " enable receiving UDP based command"' telnet & udp port number 3100

In one remote location we also had a MIDI footswitch that trigger a "local override" for a loop that an actor activated
Startup ran better when the remote PCs had launched SCS before the Master- I think so that the Master, as a Telnet network client, found its "servers" easily

This event ran for 3 weeks with very few issues
Needless to say, programming cueing was tricky, since were using cascading cue lists
We did dabble with having the remote PCs send commands back to the Master, to trigger "Memo " Cues ( i.e " Remote 1 has run Sound Cue 4 " ) but ran out of time to properly integrate this.


We also used, at another event, a single PC setup- we realised that in a standalone setup ( 1 pc with SCS and LF) you must connect PC to a router, so that UDP commands can come back to LF from SCS. This serves similar function to using a MIDI loopback.

I just want to say that every time we work with SCS I am more and more impressed with it. It is remarkably capable, packed with terrific features. And despite its complexity and depth, our students learn to use its core features really quickly. Compared to the previous software we were using SCS is so much easier to use and create complex shows with.

Craig Blackley

Craig Blackley