midi control sends via usb

[dougmiller]

Hi,
Will SCS see a USB to MIDI adapter like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hot-USB-IN-OU ... 4897.l4275 for sending Control Sends?

[sjwicks]

I have had mixed results with the cheaper versions of this device ( including from Maplin). However, the versions sold by Roland and CMG both work with no issues . They are £20.00 however. I have used them to send MSC commands to Ion lighting desks ( GO next cue) and also to digital mixing desks to mute channels and change fader levels . They will also receive MIDI. I have programmed a user defined button on a M7CL to send midi and trigger SCS .

Hope this helps.

[dougmiller]

Hi,
Thanks. Sounds like the £20 investment would be wise ... and there's no problem with SCS seeing such a USB device, then?

[sjwicks]

SCS sees the Midi interface, no problem at all - as shown. Screen shot taken just now and interface tested. MIDI control Change and MIDI SHOW CONTROL Messages sent with no errors.

[dougmiller]

I see that the Roland version is more like £30 on Amazon.
Since what I have in mind for it is part of an experiment, I might be tempted to give a £2.99 one a go.
The cunning plan is to get SCS to fire a NOTE ON/OFF message to a MIDI controlled relay unit like this one http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/htm/midi-rly8.htm then connect the relay terminals to jacks plugged into channel inserts on an analogue desk. A kinda homemade MUTE GROUP system for an non-digi desk by opening and closing the signal path at the INSERT point.
I think it's cunning!

[sjwicks]

Yeap, I think your cunning plan has merit. I have built something very similar for my analogue desk. Using a spare stage box, I created a mute circuit for each channel which was connected to a midi relay board, similar to the one you indicted. Software setup was straightforward and it works like a charm. I think your channel insert idea is simpler and therefore more elegant ( and cheaper) than my solution .

[dougmiller]

Well, thanks for that. Obviously I hope it works and I think that SCS offers a great way to compile 'midi mute group' send cues. It is intended for use on a busy show running 8 radio mics. So each show show can have its own SCS 'midi mute group'.
Did you build your mute circuit into the stage box? And what was the circuit? It would be handy to know that in case I need to work with a desk that doesn't have channel inserts.

[dougmiller]

I meant to say ... So each show song can have its own SCS 'midi mute group'.

[sjwicks]

This was the midi relay boards I used http://store.highlyliquid.com/collectio ... ucts/msa-p .

I liked the fact that it had LEDs thus showing which channel was switched on. I used two boards connect together to give 16 channels.

I did a musical that had 14 radio mics but had to use an analogue desk. My preference is to programme SCS with all the mic movements so each cue can "switch on or off" any combination of mics. Easy to do on a digital desk, but not on the analogue. Hence the project to build the mic mutes into a stage box..

This is the mic mute circuit which works well. http://www.crownaudio.com/popless.htm . I made 16 of these on a strip board, wired them to the relay boards and connected to the individual xlrs in the stage box. When I have a spare moment I'll take a picture of the finished project and component parts.

[dougmiller]

Thanks again,

Sadly, the relay board you used seems to 'sold out'. I'll email the site about it, but they're probably not making them any more.

Interesting point about clicks and pops when using the shorting method, if there is phantom power involved. I wonder if making and breaking the insert points will introduce that issue?? And one down side to the insert method occurred to me in that, obviously, those channel inserts are no longer available for any required inline processing such as comps and gates.

When you say you programme SCS with all mic movements and their ON and OFF's ... do mean a bunch of cues like this, or do you have an easier way?!

[sjwicks]

Yeap - in principle you are correct. The software my relay board uses can accept MIDI Note or MIDI Control Change data. I prefer Midi Control Change, keeping a standard workflow when using either Analogue or digital desk. This image is taken from a the Panto I'm doing this December. There will be 19 radio mics plus 7 float mics plus 3 backstage mics (for off stage voice overs). So for Cue 32, Mics 3,5 go OFF and Mic 6,7 go ON at the same time.

For any processing I need (Comps, Reverb, etc), I set these effects up in the Desk (Yamaha M7CL) and assign them to channels 34,35,36. So when I need reverb of a solo song, I use SCS to UNmute channel 34 at the same time as the music track starts and then Mute it again as soon as the the track finshes. This works really well, especially if I have a bunch of other mics that need to muted/unmuted at the same time.

In the past, I have also taken the Midi signal to the ORB lighting desk (MIDI thru from M7CL) and using MSC commands I have been able to trigger the GO button on the ORB together with muting mics, playing SFX, music and Video projections (Our Pantos can be very complex at times). It came really handy when the lighting guy couldn't make one of the performances due to snow storms.

[dougmiller]

Good stuff! Bless SCS, eh!
I shall rue the day I have to start worrying about triggering a lighting desk as well as winging a mix on top of digi or SCS recalls. I hate it, and I'm sure you do, when sound guys just go with the recalls and don't bother to use their ears and make manual tweaks to the live mix.

I can see how your 'processing system' works on a digi desk - and on an analogue desk, it would work similarly via auxes for things like reverb which can come after the fader, or certainly after EQ - but for stuff like gates and comps etc, which have to be in line with individual channel signals, that's obviously where the inserts on an analogue desk come in to their own.
On an analogue desk, if I deploy the 'insert make/break' technique for SCS triggered mute groups rather than your mute circuit idea, I will lose the inserts and lose the ability to runs comps and gates. Won't I??

[sjwicks]

Yeap - you will indeed lose the ability to use external comps and gates. My system started off being reasonably affordable but soon it mounted up to being "a bit more than I really wanted to spend". But it works well and makes running the show significantly easier. So, perhaps sacrificing the inserts to SCS rather than outboard might be OK. I guess it depends on the type of show ...

[sjwicks]

Here are some photos of the finished box and internals (Mic Mute circuits and Midi relay boards)

[sjwicks]

and final 3 photos