Show Cue System

Maybe I'm crazy, but I can't find it in the forum anywhere...

Say you're rolling a set of cues that need to advance to the next cue automatically -- Think classical music. Think ballet. Think Nutcracker. Transitions, but continuous audio (trying to keep the post search friendly). Or think Frampton Comes Alive if that works better.

So you've got "CD tracks" that go from one to the next with no pause (of anything, audio or otherwise) in between. Playing tracks such as this from SCS always seem to "hiccup" at the split. Tried on a few different systems, tried with a few different interfaces, nothing seems to change.

The "workaround" at this point is to have the next cue start 0.25 seconds before the end of the previous cue. Which works reasonably well (as much as I don't think it should be necessary) and *most* of the dancers don't notice (but there's always a "Gee, that feels so rushed right there" comment from someone - and they're right - but that's not the point).

Tried different audio options, tried larger and smaller buffers, ASIO, DS, loading more and fewer files, the works.

I can't imagine the software isn't capable...

Help...?

Have you looked at the waveforms in an audio editor to see if there is a little bit of silence at the head or tail? If there is then you can easily edit out those silences or you can at least see how long they are and set your start time accordingly (seeing as how .25 is just a little rushed).

You could also edit together the waveforms if necessary.

I believe that the problem arises from the way the CD is ripped into the computer. Even though the track marks are effectively flags in a continuous performance, in the ripping process each track is considered as a separate entity and may well lose a few samples from either end in the process. These missing samples create the glitches when consecutive tracks are run as consecutive cues in SCS. I think Mike has written somewhere, but I cannot find, that SCS doesn't know the tracks belong together.

To demonstrate what is possible in SCS, try creating consecutive cues from the same music track. Create an end point in the first cue in the middle of some music (without a fade out). In the second cue make the start point EXACTLY the same as the end point in the first cue, to the third decimal place, again without a fade in. Make the second cue auto-start 0.0 seconds after the end of the first. Run the two cues and I doubt you'll hear the join.

One way to avoid the glitches is to rip the CD as a single track, which is possible in iTunes amongst other programs. You''ll need to work out how to navigate it if necessary.

If the CD tracks are separate cues then SCS does not currently provide gapless playback between cues. Could you email me a diagnostic dump file? To create this file start SCS and open the relevant cue file (if it's not already open on starting SCS) and then click Help / Create Diagnostic Dump File. This will create a time-stamped file in a folder named "SCS Dumps" under "Documents" or "My Documents". Please email me that file and I'll have a look at what's involved in providing gapless playback.

You got it!!!

Well, when I'm back at the theater anyway...

Thanks!

I just want to chime in that with the SoundMan-Server engine, it is possible to do seamless audio joins of tracks during playback although I don't know how exactly the tools in SCS are able to set this up at this point..... Obviously it's something that can be done....

charlier wrote:I just want to chime in that with the SoundMan-Server engine, it is possible to do seamless audio joins of tracks during playback...

I'm interested in that, Charlie. What would be a typical sequence of SM-S commands that would achieve seamless joins?

Use the Repeat command: http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/soun ... t.html#rep
The repeat point as well as the end point (using the STOP command) can be specified down to sample precision and these commands can be put into scripts as well. Plus the repeat command can be turned on and off at will and invoked at any time as a live command.

There are also these REPEAT related commands:

http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/soun ... atrareptim
http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/soun ... atrareptim
http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/soun ... hatrareptc

Charlie, unless I'm missing something I don't think the Repeat command is what we're looking for as that provides for looping within a single playback channel, but what MM needs is a way to seamlessly join two or more playback channels (using SM-S terminology).

MM: Although it may be possible to make some changes to SCS to provide gapless playback of audio file cues, in the short term I recommend Malcolm's suggestion of ripping the CD as a single audio file and just having one cue for this selection of music. You may still want to keep separate cues of individual CD tracks for rehearsals, and for that purpose I suggest you place these 'rehearsal cues' at the end of your cue list so you don't have to skip over them during production runs.

OK, I understand although you can also specify exact start and stop times for individual files as well, not just the same one in a repeating or looping situation.

MassiveMastering wrote:Maybe I'm crazy, but I can't find it in the forum anywhere...

Say you're rolling a set of cues that need to advance to the next cue automatically -- Think classical music. Think ballet. Think Nutcracker. Transitions, but continuous audio (trying to keep the post search friendly). Or think Frampton Comes Alive if that works better.

So you've got "CD tracks" that go from one to the next with no pause (of anything, audio or otherwise) in between. Playing tracks such as this from SCS always seem to "hiccup" at the split. Tried on a few different systems, tried with a few different interfaces, nothing seems to change.

The "workaround" at this point is to have the next cue start 0.25 seconds before the end of the previous cue. Which works reasonably well (as much as I don't think it should be necessary) and *most* of the dancers don't notice (but there's always a "Gee, that feels so rushed right there" comment from someone - and they're right - but that's not the point).

Tried different audio options, tried larger and smaller buffers, ASIO, DS, loading more and fewer files, the works.

I can't imagine the software isn't capable...

Help...?

Gapless playback will be available in SCS 11.2.0 RC2. I've currently got this working for Playlist cues and will now work on providing this for Audio File cues set to autostart 0.000 seconds after another Audio File cue. There will be some restrictions on this implementation but nothing that I believe would be an issue in practice. It has been implemented by creating a separate internal 'gapless' mixer stream.

This is why SCS is turning into my favorite program...

Yes I am also looking forward to gapless playback! I have come across this and have always had to do the best I could to adjust the track breaks at quiet points. Dance performances tend to have the audio split into tracks even if the tracks play through. Its not realistic to rehearse with seperate tracks and then to use one long track for performance. When the stage manager asks where we are in time and he is used to hearing "track 5, 2minutes 15 seconds" and marking his book that way, well, you cannot describe that point differently during a performance!
Brontoy

Don't forget those crazy lighting people... Heck, this year, I attached a monitor just for the lighting desk so they could see the clocks.

That said, if they'd just invest a few bucks, they could have me send the commands to the console from SCS...

A very few bucks! You can control this USB relay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Relay-Con ... OU:GB:1123
with an RS232 command (actually two - relay_on followed after 100ms, say, by relay_off).
Our LX desk already includes a port for a remote 'GO' button, but you could wire the relay in parallel with your actual 'GO' button if necessary.
Good luck,
Dave