Show Cue System

Hi,

I am using SCS 10 prof. version with a Toshiba Satellite laptop (intel, 2.16 Ghz, 2 gig Ram 32 bit op system) and windows vista home premium. Sound card is an m audio fast track ultra.

I have a show on at the moment and am getting random glitch errors - usually just one stutter or 'jerk'. It happens randomly, on different cues, averaging 4 incidences per run. It will happen on simple short stereo cues as well as the more complex ones. The show has 165 cues, quite a few of the cues have a number of sub cues, going to multiple outputs, some time delayed.

The multiple output setup is centre channel, Main L+R, and rear L + R. The backup laptop (running stereo), which is an elderly compac running XP with 512 ram , with a simple usb sound card (edirol) has no trouble playing back the show - even the multi layered cues.

I'v pulled the rig from the show and have another one in its place so I can get this one sorted.

I have set up/optimised the vista laptop as per a link to instructions I found on this site - this made the laptop run a heap better.

The settings in SCS are as follows:

Permanent options: AUDIO DRIVER TAB: 'use SCS internal mixer' is selected . Pre buffer is set to 2000 ms and playback buffer set to 5000. update period 100
milliseconds
GENERAL : max number of audio files to pre open is 8

The M audio is turning up in the physical devices as M-Audio USB 2.0 ASIO

The M-Audio control panel has the ASIO/WDM buffer set to 4096 samples. the high performance mode and enable asio direct monitoring boxes are not selected.

And randomly, just as I was looking at SCS, I tried to select a tab and the SCS windows did a white out , and a message appeared saying SCS has stopped working!! and reported an app crash.

So ... any thoughts would be appreciated....I'm hoping there is something I have missed.... I also am wondering if it's the sound card drivers not playing nice with vista - and am thinking maybe I should put XP on the lap top.

thanks!

Gilli

Worth adding GIl that we tried disabling the internal mixer - but then we lost the multiple outputs on the sound card (everything would just route out the L/R)

And I wonder if it is the same issue that Mike explains in this topic

http://www.showcuesystems.com/forum/vie ... f=1&t=1231

yep I had that happen as well when disabling the internal mixer too - lost multiple outputs. Also just updated to the latest version of SCS. Have yet to test with update properly as Im at home. Its not a big deal if I have to go to XP , I'm not that into the vista buzz...

Gilli

terrein wrote:And I wonder if it is the same issue that Mike explains in this topic

http://www.showcuesystems.com/forum/vie ... f=1&t=1231

Probably is the same issue. The most reliable solution to the problem you are having is to choose not to use the internal mixer, which also means using WDM instead of ASIO. I regret that with M-Audio products under Vista (and I presume Win7) there will be the restriction that the driver will only allow you to use the first WDM channel pair. Using an XP computer will therefore be your best solution for now, and to turn off the internal mixer.

Thanks, I'm going to get XP put on my laptop today. All good. Glad to find out what the problem probably is. I'm not hung up about being stuck with XP, as XP doesn't ruin my buzz.

I only got the M-audio box because I needed it quick for a show a while ago in which I was running multi channel but way less demanding than the current show, so it was ok using ASIO. I have another show coming up thats likely to be demanding and it's an International Arts festival show so I'm needing things nice and solid.

I am trying to replace the m audio with an Edirol UA -101, but am finding it almost impossible to source here in NZ. The music chain store that sells Roland say it will take a month, if not longer to get one in, and Roland NZ are non communicative. An American company we have bought stuff from wont ship to NZ saying Roland wont let them ship out of the states. There is little choice off the shelf here in NZ. It's frustrating if you need to put together something quickly.

Can anyone recommend an Australian store / on seller that would have the UA -101? Or has anyone got one for sale ????

cheers,

Gilli

A quick search with Google found Anthony's Music which has the UA-101 listed. Whether or not they have it in stock and will ship to NZ I wouldn't know, but it may be worth trying this site. They are in Liverpool, NSW, Australia.

Does your music supplier have other brands available?

Cool thanks I didn't see Anthonys when I looked around on the net .. will give them a ring.

M -audio seems to be well stocked here, and there is another chain that does lexicon and yamaha. I'd like to move on from the fast track ultra - only 6 analogue outs, although when using a digital console its easy enough to use the spidif for outputs 7+8. I'm keen on the UA 101 because it's 10 outs, and USB, and it looks reasonably well made, and because the other Edirol 2 channel soundcards we have have been super reliable. Roland New Zealand doesn't answer the phone or return messages.

Thanks very much!

cheers

Gilli

Sorry to resurect an old thread but it seems most relevent to my issue.
I have got a new laptop which runs Windows 7 and now I can't see the multiple outputs on my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra unless I use the internal mixer. Knowing that using the internal mixer was the cause of huge problems I had last year on a Panto I am reluctant to have to use this even with the buffers set to 5000ms.

Mike, you say above that there is a known issue with M-Audio products on Vista and Win7, what exactly is the problem, just buffering? Andis there no way round this or will I have to advise any theatre I work at not to buy M-Audio sound cards unless on XP?

Thanks
Gary

I presume the extra outputs you see when using the internal mixer are ASIO. M-Audio WDM drivers for Vista and Win7 only support 2 outputs.

Try using the SCS internal mixer and ASIO outputs. Run some tests using typical files that you would use for a production. It may be that your laptop will handle the playback OK. If you get stuttering or breakup in the sound, check out the 'ASIO Problems' section under 'Troubleshooting' in the SCS Help.

If you cannot get a satisfactory result from this then you will probably need to use a different audio interface, such as the Roland Octa Capture. Alternatively you might like to consider purchasing SoundMan-Server (SM-S) - see this forum topic for more information, and also the SoundMan-Server section in the SCS Help file. If you think this may be a good solution, let me know. There have been some recent changes to the pricing model for SM-S and if you let me know how many outputs you want to use I can advise you on the best SM-S license.

Hi everyone.
I have just tried upgrading to SCS8...and can no longer use the M AUdio Fast Track Ultra 8R. The MAudio has regularly dropped out of view to the program ("disconnected") and even when running , although allowing set up of several channels under the ASIO driver, will only output from Chs 1and 2. I use Win7 (this is the option available on the thatre PC where I operate in AM Dram productions) with plenty of processing power in either a MacPro and Bootcamp, or an i5 processor PC at the theatre. A day fiddling with all the settings to no avail and ........

I have returned to 10.7.7 and all is fine again.

Thus Mike, I think the upgrade to 10.8 rather stinks! It is all very well suggesting the purchase of a Soundman license but looking briefly at the cost completely counts that option out... and it was unnecessary in 10.7. One reason for using SCS is the relatively low cost......

I have also just coughed up for the upgrade extension for another year... looks a bad waste that, as we will not be able to progress from version 7 with the hardware we have.

Is there any chance of you sorting this problem out for us... or is it "just one of those things with M Audio interfaces"... which otherwise seem to work pretty well.....

Mark

I'm just designing a show using a computer with an M-Audio Delta 1010LT card. I have four outputs I need. In the editor I set up pair 1-2 in the Physical Device column as a stereo pair with the outputs designated 1-2. The second stereo pair in the Physical Device column was 3-4 with the Outputs set up as 3-4. Well 3-4 didn't work. I changed a number of settings but couldn't get it to work properly, UNTIL I changed the second stereo pair's (3-4) outputs to 1-2. Then it worked.
I am not using the internal mixer and I have checked the setting saying Force enabling of Speaker Assignments.
So for some reason the logic of this M-Audio set up is that no matter what the stereo pairs assigned in the Physical Device column in the Editor, in the last column (labeled Outputs), choose 1, 2. That should make the output pair work.

Mark Seyler wrote:I have returned to 10.7.7 and all is fine again.

That's strange. I'm not aware of any changes since 10.7.7 that could cause this. 10.7.7 and 10.8.2 use the same version of the BASS audio library dll, and changes within SCS should not have affected normal WDM playback. If you have time, would you be willing to run trace versions of SCS 10.7.7 and 10.8.2 so I can get a better idea of what's happening?

The interface to SoundMan-Server (SM-S) was added after we evaluated a request from an SM-S user who wanted to use SCS as a front-end to SM-S. SCS will continue to support BASS as the default audio library as there is no additional cost to users, but SM-S is a more powerful product which is more suitable for high-end applications, particularly theme parks. So adding SM-S support to SCS in no way affects the low-cost solution for AmDram and even Professional users.

Hi Mike.. as usual a rapid reply!

I could try trace versions if you think that would help you. Don't know what that entails.......!

Mark

Eric Snodgrass wrote: "So for some reason the logic of this M-Audio set up is that no matter what the stereo pairs assigned in the Physical Device column in the Editor, in the last column (labeled Outputs), choose 1, 2. That should make the output pair work".[/quote]

Hi Eric,
Does this though mean that you are restricted to just one stereo out.... or were you getting outputs from 3-4 as well, despite them being called 1-2?
Very difficult to set up that...!!!

I cannot try that on my set up as I have gone back to 10.7.7 and all seems normal..... don't really want to wreck that state at present

Mark